In the second of two special conferences on how to improve chances of being accepted by one of the best business schools, BW Online had as its guests on Mar. 22 Henry (Hank) Malin, director of admissions at Dartmouth College's Amos Tuck School of Business, and John A. Byrne, senior writer for Business Week.
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OnlineHost: Good evening and welcome! Tonight Business Week Online has a special treat for everyone interested in furthering his or her business education via an MBA--a conference on how to make the most of your chances of getting into the best B-school, and on the latest trends in B-school applications, now running at record levels.
Business Week's guest expert tonight is Henry (Hank) Malin (Hank admit), director of admissions at Dartmouth's Amos Tuck School of Business. In that job, he annually responds to 20,000 inquiries and processes 2,200 applications for just 180 places in the school. He has a bachelor's in history from Dartmouth and a master's in education from Harvard.
With Hank Malin on stage is Business Week Senior Writer John Byrne (JohnByrnBW), who created BW's biennial rankings of the best B-schools. Beyond that, he has written about executive pay, the disenchantment of middle managers, the folly of management fads, and corporate culture, among many other management subjects. He's the author of five business books, including the fourth edition of Business Week's Guide to the Best Business Schools--in bookstores now.
John Byrne will help interview Hank Malin--and may well offer some expert guidance himself. The moderator of tonight's discussion is Jack Dierdorff (JackBW), consulting editor of BW Online. And now on to your questions on how to get into the best B-school.
JackBW: Good evening to all of you on AOL--and hi, Hank Malin and John Byrne.
JohnByrnBW: Welcome, Hank.
Hank admit: Hello, John, thanks for inviting me tonight.
JackBW: John Byrne of Business Week will throw you the first question, Hank.
JohnByrnBW: Only a couple of years ago, some people were saying that the MBA boom was over. Now applications are skyrocketing. How come?
Hank admit: In part, the rise is due to positive press for the MBA in the past two years.
JohnByrnBW: What are some other reasons?
Hank admit: The necessity for the degree for gaining promotions and insuring a long, successful career.
JackBW: How about this one, Hank?
Question: Hank, does it make a difference what an MBA applicant has studied as an undergraduate?
Hank admit: No difference. We look for a diversity of backgrounds in undergrad majors. But we do hope applicants have some course work in economics and math.
JackBW: MAC Eric has a question.
Question: I have a brief question on undergrad business schools. I would just like Mr. Malin's opinion of them.
JackBW: Is it worth studying business as an undergrad?
Hank admit: Not necessarily. Sometimes it's harder to make the case for an MBA if you have an undergrad business degree.
JohnByrnBW: Duke expects to hit a new record for applications. Wharton and Stanford are both up over 50%. How are apps running at Dartmouth this year?
Hank admit: Well ahead of last year. We expect to have one of our best years ever, John.
JohnByrnBW: Not long ago, lots of folks were worried about the paucity of women applicants. Has that turned around?
Hank admit: More women are applying this year, but women are still underrepresented in most B-schools.
JackBW: ConvSoft has the next question, Hank Malin.
Question: What do you look for in job experience (if any) of applicants?
Hank admit: We look for the level of achievement in the job. The type of job and time in the job is less important.
JohnByrnBW: Hank, how much weight do you assign to such key factors as GMAT, work experience, essays, etc.?
Hank admit: Academics are most important to be considered, then potential contribution in the classroom.
JohnByrnBW: Academics meaning GMAT score and GPA average?
Hank admit: Yes, but GMAT/GPA are not the only way to assess academics.
JackBW: TEHorner's question is next.
Question: I scored low on the GMAT but have a nice undergraduate record. What are my options about getting into graduate school?
Hank admit: It depends on many factors--and on what B-school you apply to.
JohnByrnBW: Hank, can you elaborate on that?
Hank admit: Sure. Work, extracurricular activities, personal qualities, leadership potential, recommendations all play a part.
JohnByrnBW: So if a candidate has a weak GMAT score, he or she has to make it up somewhere else?
Hank admit: Different schools will view GMAT differently, but there needs to be some compensating factor.
JackBW: Mickey366 lobs this one your way.
Question: How strongly are undergraduate grades considered when an applicant has strong work experience? For example, a 2.5 but six years of strong performance with two top-10 banks.
Hank admit: It never hurts to have good grades, but you can overcome weaker ones with the other factors I talked about.
JohnByrnBW: Hank, explain the admissions process to us. What happens when an application arrives at Tuck?
Hank admit: The app is viewed by three professionals. If their recommendations are all the same, we follow that decision. We do not use student evaluators.
JohnByrnBW: What happens when two of the three say yes?
Hank admit: Well, then it goes to a committee of readers to review again. The committee is made up of faculty and administrators.
JackBW: Try this question from KZdyb, Hank.
Question: How do the best business schools, Tuck for example, try to encourage minority applicants?
JohnByrnBW: Good question.
Hank admit: We do a variety of things including visits to HBCs [historically black colleges]. We also use alums to identify and recruit talented minority applicants, and we use our Minority Business Executive Program alums to help us.
JohnByrnBW: Are you getting more minority applicants? Roughly how does the school's current population stack up with women, international, and minority students?
Hank admit: We currently have 33% women, 20% international, and 12% minority.
JackBW: DanielJ73, yours is the next question.
Question: Beyond the standard GPA, GMAT, and work experience, what can an applicant do to differentiate himself from other MBA candidates?
Hank admit: We also look for a specific set of criteria including creativity, ability to work in groups effectively, leadership ability, humane qualities, and career as a central focus in an applicant's life.
JackBW: We have a number of questions asking for evaluation of specific B-schools. We're not able to answer those tonight--we're focusing on application techniques. You can go later to BW's Best B-Schools area online for data on 44 schools [select What's New on the BW Online opening screen].
JohnByrnBW: Any advice for late applicants who file just under the deadlines?
Hank admit: Do you mean after the deadlines?
JohnByrnBW: No. Just before the final deadline.
Hank admit: No difference to us. But applicants must recognize that fewer spots remain at that time.
JohnByrnBW: So the odds run against them?
Hank admit: Not necessarily, but it's best to apply early.
JackBW: Cultrocks looks for guidance in study.
Question: Are there specific areas in economics and math that you can suggest to focus on for success in B-school?
Hank admit: Yes. Make sure to take micro and macro economics, calculus, and statistics. Accounting helps, too.
JohnByrnBW: Hank, have you had any applicants who did unusual things this year to get noticed? Like videos, or dressing up like a clown for the interview?
Hank admit: No notes from the Pope [as mentioned by consultant Sally Lannin in the Mar. 15 BW Online conference on this same subject], but plenty of cookies and flowers.
JohnByrnBW: If an applicant sends you flowers, does it increase his or her chances of getting in?
Hank admit: Flowers are always appreciated by our staff!
JackBW: RichardFM has this one--we won't ask HIS age.
Question: How old is the oldest applicant you have ever accepted?
Hank admit: Oldest accepted was 40+. We have a 42-year-old in first-year class.
JohnByrnBW: How many Tuck applicants are interviewed in any given year? And should an applicant interview if he's not that articulate?
Hank admit: We conduct 2,000 interviews each year. An interview should be viewed as an opportunity to present oneself beyond the paper and numbers.
JohnByrnBW: What percentage of your total apps does that account for?
Hank admit: Close to 90%.
JohnByrnBW: So should an applicant show up in his or her power suit and really put on a show?
Hank admit: An applicant should come dressed as a professional. Jeans are not a good idea!
JohnByrnBW: But I bet some show up in jeans, right?
Hank admit: Yes, jeans, sweats, shorts on a good day!
Hank admit: Skip power briefcase, too.
JohnByrnBW: Hank, give us some general guidelines when applying to a top school.
Hank admit: Applicants should apply only when they are ready.
JohnByrnBW: Ready how?
Hank admit: Ready to contribute effectively in class, and to maximize their learning.
JohnByrnBW: So they should have some seasoning, work experience, etc.?
Hank admit: We prefer some work experience, but it's not an absolute necessity.
JohnByrnBW: I'm sure you would say they also should apply early--for the first or second application deadlines.
Hank admit: Yes, although it's a bit late to do that this year. We are still accepting people, however.
JohnByrnBW: Should they take a GMAT prep course or courses in statistics if they don't have much math work on their undergrad records?
Hank admit: I would advise course work over prep courses. It gives them an advantage when they matriculate.
JohnByrnBW: How much time do you think a candidate should spend on a single application?
Hank admit: Harvard says its average applicant spends over 100 hours. I think that is excessive.
JohnByrnBW: What do you think is about right?
Hank admit: Probaly 20 to 30 hours is more realistic.
JohnByrnBW: Should an applicant have a few people read over his or her essays?
Hank admit: Better to do it yourself. We want to admit the real person rather than a fictional version.
JackBW: DDcincy is one of several asking for an opinion on full vs. part-time programs. Of course, you might be prejudiced, Hank!
Hank admit: Part-time programs are great for those who can't leave their jobs--or in the rare cases when a company is willing to pay.
JohnByrnBW: What about the general quality of part-time programs?
Hank admit: They vary, just as full-time programs do.
JackBW: Sskush asks this:
Question: Does financial aid play a role in admission, or is it blind to that issue?
Hank admit: We have need-blind admissions at Tuck.
JohnByrnBW: Hank, Dean McArthur at Harvard recently was quoted as saying that "business school education is a scandal." Do you agree?
Hank admit: Hardly. It's still a great thing to do for the right people.
JohnByrnBW: McArthur, of course, was referring to MBA education at the lesser-known schools.
JackBW: Skip 1968 and others wonder about tips on references.
Question: How should a candidate handle recommendations when he/she is applying to several schools?
JackBW: How much weight do recommendations get?
Hank admit: It's fine to use the same recommendation for different schools. We know it happens all the time. Recommendations can make or break an application.
JackBW: Who are the best sources for such letters?
Hank admit: People who have personally supervised you or know your work well. Do not go just for titles.
JohnByrnBW: Or the Pope, right?
Hank admit: Yes.
JohnByrnBW: Hank, what do you do when the application season is over?
Hank admit: I try not to read for months!
JackBW: One final question: What about consulting services to help you?
Question: In the '80s there were several consulting firms offering programs to assist people in preparing MBA applications. What is your opinion of using these services today? Are they effective?
Hank admit: Consulting services are best for people starting from ground zero.
JackBW: Thanks, Hank Malin.
JohnByrnBW: Thanks for joining us, Hank.
Hank admit: Thank you for asking me to be here tonight.
JackBW: And thanks, John, and all of you on AOL. Sorry we couldn't take everyone's questions.
JackBW: You will find the transcript of last week's conference on the same subject, with consultant Sally Lannin, ready for downloading in BW Online under Special Events and in the Best B-School area.
OnlineHost: Thanks to Hank Malin, John Byrne, and the Business Week team for this expert advice on how to get into the best B-school. If you'd like to keep talking, we invite you to move over to the BW Online Chat Room. Or you can post your comments or questions in the BW Online Message Boards (try Management and Legal Affairs, where among other things there's an Ask John Byrne folder).
Transcripts of all BW Online conferences are available soon after the event (look under Special Events, Talk, or Search BW). While you're at it, explore all the features of BW Online (keyword: BW)--especially the Best B-Schools area, which you reach via the What's New button on the BW Online opening screen.
You can also order BW's Guide to the Best B-Schools, authored by John Byrne, in the BW Online Store (select Offers & Info on the opening screen).
BW Online will have another special B-school conference on Thursday, Mar. 30, also at 9 pm ET here in the Bowl, with special guest Dean Joseph White of the University of Michigan B-school. And mark your calendars for a conference with BW editors or newsmakers every Sunday at 9pm ET in the Globe. Thanks again and good night!
Copyright 1995 McGraw-Hill, Inc. All rights reserved.
